Its principles are the right of Israel to live within secure borders and the right of Palestinians to self-determination, first step towards the creation of an independent and sovereign Palestinian state in the territories adjacent to Israel. After having published several stories about the condition of Iranian political prisoners in Israel, Yigal Sarna has received the IBM Tolerance Prize. As a novelist and writer he has published The Man Who Fell Into a Puddle, a collection of short stories about people whose life has been cleft by a tragedy (Holocaust, death during war in Kurdistan or in Syrian prisons). For this book he received the French Literary Prize WIZO.
You covered for almost 24 years the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as a war reporter so you know very well this subject having been directly concerned. Are you pessimistic or optimistic about a possible and definitive resolution of the conflict?
I must say that I’m deeply pessimistic. I covered the conflict and I published a book called ‘A state witness’. It is like taking someone from the mafia, protecting him and at the same time using him against the mafia. I’m from the mafia but I bear witness against the mafia. Concerning the situation in the Middle East I’m very pessimistic now because I’ve seen that we had a chance in ’93 thanks to Oslo agreement. It was like a window of hope but both sides (but I accuse my side because we are the stronger one) did not fulfil their duties and weren’t able to achieve a compromise because of very deep objections, fears and anxieties. Now it’s much more difficult than 15 years ago.
You have been also very critical of the methods used by Israeli army inside the occupied territories. In a recent interview you said also that ‘Israeli democracy has been kidnapped by the army’. What do you mean with that?
I think that the idea of a Zionist state, which is my state, was to give a safe place for the Jews who never felt safe. So we created a sort of ‘mechanism’ whose aim was to bring security to the population. Unluckily this mechanism has now a life itself, it has become too strong and influences politics, economy and everyday life. Israel is not a military state but a democracy in which the army has become too strong. For example in the last war against Lebanon politicians acted like ‘beginners’ because they followed blindly the army who conceived the military plan. The army forced the politicians to act in a certain manner, taking wrong decisions. At the end the war was a total failure. This shows how strong is the army inside the Israeli society and the way army has ‘kidnapped’ politicians.
You had a very strong experience also as a soldier in 1973 during Yom Kippur war. After this traumatic experience you decided, with other ex-soldiers, to create the “Peace Now” movement. Can you describe how did you come to this decision and achieve this consciousness?
In 1973’s war I was a very young soldier. I was only 21 and I saw the stupidity of the war. If you want an idea of this stupidity, read Curzio Malaparte’s ‘Kaput’, for me the best book ever written on the Second World War. I admired this book. When you find yourself in the middle of a war, you open your eyes and realize that war is the most stupid activity of human being. After the war I became a founder of the Peace Now movement because I understood that the military solution is always the worst choice, it brings you nowhere. We wanted to achieve security by using force. I must say that I became ‘old’ at the age of 21. War always opens you eyes if you’re not an idiot. The defeat or the victory is just a question of chance. You can’t found all your history on the chance or on tanks, aeroplanes and killing people. For me this is the opposite idea of what real Zionism was at the beginning.
Do you still believe in a two-state solution?
I think this solution is impossible today. The funny thing is that ultra-orthodox and fanatics, who push for a Jewish state, have destroyed any possibility of creating two separate states. In fact, if you found settlements you can’t separate the country anymore. Today there’s only one state and a separation wall with Jews living in both sides of it. It’s a chaos. Outside this chaos there can only be another disaster. I don’t see any other solution for now.
What’s your opinion about the Wall?
The wall is another military solution. I think that if you want to bring security to your country you shouldn’t build a wall between people. This is my idea. The wall was conceived as a defence against bombing and terrorist attacks. But now you’ve also the Qassam missiles passing above it. Should we erect for this reason a wall until the top of the sky? The idea of the wall remains stupid.
You wrote also about the condition of Iranian political prisoners in Israel and for this you won the IBM tolerance price. What’s your opinion about Iran?
I’m different than many other Israelis. I don’t consider Iran as the devil. First, Iran has been for many years the greatest friend of Israel, at the time of the Shah. Iran has also a great culture producing great movies, photography and arts in general. In a way, Iran is acting with pragmatism. They want to be the Superpower of the area but I think they have other enemies than us. They don’t have a border with Israel, they have borders with other countries like Iraq, Russia who can create bigger problems than us. I wrote also that I don’t care if Iran has the nuclear bomb. In this case a sort of ‘balanced power’ could be created in the area between Iran and Israel. Both Iran and Israel can be considered as ‘crazy’ countries. If we look inside Iran we can see, in a mirror, the reflection of ourselves because of the same fanaticism, the infinite talking but also a great culture and civilisation. Between those two countries a balance can be achieved. Maybe it could be the beginning of a new ‘cold’ war in the Middle East.
Do you feel safe living in Israel?
I feel safe and unsafe at the same time. Safe, because I live in a kind of new Babel, Tel Aviv. It’s a great city with great nightlife, better cappuccino than in Milan (Sarna smiles). Unsafe because suddenly there can be an explosion in a café next to me. I wrote a book called ‘Flood’ on this subject. It’s a love story between a man and a married woman. They meet in different hotels or café in Tel Aviv. It’s a story about the effort to live a safe and comfortable life in this crazy country called Israel. That’s why I feel safe and unsafe at the same time. Sometimes the Foreign Office says that Israelis must go to Europe or United States during their vacations and avoid Africa for example. But I reply that for me, the most dangerous place for Israelis is Israel.