“It’s aim is to introduce Muslim culture in Morocco, but it forgets that Morocco has been a Muslim country since the 18th century, and I don’t see the need for such a struggle – he says – If they came to power they would try to close all bars, forbid alcohol, to impose the use of Arabic everywhere.” The greatest hope for his country, rather, would be entry into the EU: “This prospect,” the winner of the Prix Goncourt, of the Global Tolerance Award, and, very recently, of the Grinzane Cavour prize, tells us, “would be a massive stimulus for the development and democratisation of Morocco.”
The most important protagonist in the recent Moroccan elections, even if it received less votes than expected, was the Islamic PJD party – ‘Justice and Development’. What are your views on this group?
It’s a party which stems from the Islamist movement, but which has categorically renounced all forms of violence and which has made Islam its culture, morality and way of life. The PJD’s aim is to introduce Muslim culture in Morocco, but it forgets that Morocco has been a Muslim country since the 18th century, and I don’t see the need for such a struggle.
Do you feel that the PJD is more comparable to the Turkish party of Justice and Development, which currently has both the Prime Minister and President in power in Ankara, or the Egyptian Muslim Brothers?
It’s inspired a bit by both. When they speak on the television, the leaders of the PJD try to show a more moderate, reassuring side, since they don’t want to frighten the Moroccan people. I fear that if they were to come to power they might behave very differently.
In what way?
They would try to close the bars, to forbid alcohol, and to impose the use of Arabic everywhere.
What is the social base of the PJD? Does it win the votes of the middle classes, like its Turkish ‘cousins’?
Yes, it’s not only the less well-off that vote for them, but also the rich. The wealthiest have also campaigned for them.
And yet how do you explain the low turnout (just 37%) at the last elections?
Abstention has been the most worrying element of these elections, because it indicates that the Moroccan people have become so disillusioned with the last legislature as to lose all hope of a change, and all confidence in politics. This explains the general disinterest in the elections. Today, the real challenge is to reignite this interest in the people, and it won’t be easy. However, for the first time in the history of Morocco we have had a truly democratic vote, which was genuinely transparent. This has been confirmed by international observers, and no one within the country has raised any objections. It is a completely different scenario to the years of the reign of King Hassan II, when the participation of the voters was zero, and the results were clearly preordained. But despite this, we must be careful, and try to inspire again in the people a taste for politics.
Is the high level of abstention also a victory for the Party of Justice and Charity (Al Adl Wa Al Ihssane), Nadia Yassine’s radical Islamic movement which demands the instating of sharia law and had called for voters to boycott the elections?
No. This is Yassine’s interpretation, obviously, because it is in her interest to believe this. I know many young Islamicists who did not vote, but only as a sign of protest against the establishment, not because they were obeying Yassine’s orders. Justice and Charity has a lot less supporters than many people think. There is a big difference between them and the PJD, which has genuine popular support.
Would you define Morocco as a ‘democracy’?
It’s beginning to become one. Democracy is a culture, and it needs an education that teaches this. In this process the role of the parties is fundamental, because they must know how to set an example of justice and, I would also say, of integrity.
What does Morocco need to do to proceed along the road of democracy?
The most urgent problems are those of justice and corruption, which the State has begun to tackle, but with unsatisfactory results as yet. The reforms effected in recent years by King Mohammed VI have been very brave, and have brought about a real change, both concerning issues of freedom and on the rights of women. Now it is up to the Moroccan people to continue along this path. The State is not to blame for corruption – it is people who corrupt, or who are corrupted.
Could the Turkish Islamic party, currently in power, be a model for the PJD?
I don’t know. The history of Turkey is unique, and very different to that of Morocco. Turkey has been a secular nation for decades, and the rise of an Islamic party generates much greater concerns than in a country like Morocco. In Morocco there is already a law which bans religious parties – the PJD itself, which is basically a religious party, was forced to omit any reference to Islam from its name. I am a secularist, and I believe in the separation of politics and religion. Religion must remain in the private sphere, and not influence public life.
How do you view the possibility of the entry of Morocco into the EU? Perhaps once the negotiations for the adhesion of Turkey are finalised?
It would be a good idea, because it would encourage Morocco on the path of development and democracy.
Translation by Liz Longden